Here in Arizona Illegal, Right? Imigration Law
70Pro or Con
Illegal Mexicans and the immigration law of Arizona is the big topic. We have made national news again; several times the decisions of our Governor, Senates and Representatives of our state legislation have done it again.
The last big one was Martin Luther King Day. Arizona lost a lot. People stop coming to Arizona, the state lost millions of dollars.
So here we are again, in a time of very high unemployment. Arizona's government has done it again.
The hot topic is Illegal Immigrates so what does that mean really mean?
Well the definition per Wikipedia.
“Illegal immigration is the movement of people across national borders in a way that violates the immigration laws of the destination country. Illegal immigrants are also known as illegal aliens to differentiate them from legal aliens. Conversely, illegal emigration refers to unlawfully leaving a country. states that, the person who has entered the US without the knowledge of them being in the US the right way.”
Getting citizenship papers, like most other people who decide they want to live and be an American are not illegals.
Now, here are some of the arguments, from our citizens of Mexican heritage.
"They work hard" I totally agree, most work long hours for very low wages. If they were legal citizens they would be able to obtain higher wages, because they do work hard and do excellent work.
"They have children that are born here" The separations of family members are very high. It's true; the state has supported them with opportunity for their children, unknowingly, and has reaped the benefits of what America offers. The benefits for living in the US, out weighs living in their own country. . It was their choice for their children to be born in the US. Something that the parents maybe should have considered if they got caught. Why not become an American, it would be a lot easier for your family?
"They have established businesses" Yes, they have, they utilized their much needed skills, and have been here for years. Thank you! Even more reason to become an American.
Why not become an American? Please help me with this!
Now, the argument by some, is that the law, "Mexicans will be targeted", If you are an American, no worries. You might have to show that you are a citizen. African Americans get stopped all the time. Racial profiling, part of the American history with us, still trying to change it and we are here legally. Targeted, has been well known in our community for decades and decades and decades.
So, what is there to do? The law of all people who want to be in America from other countries, to raise their families, to participate in all aspects of government and every part of it, even serving the military service to defend America. To keep the freedoms, that are enjoyed it's not a perfect place, the US, but better than a lot of other countries, including the one most are running from and what the uproar is all about. I don’t blame you. I wouldn’t want to go back to it either. I understand, but……
So, here we go again in the lime light of America news stations and abroad on a issue if you want really want the raw truth, see if for what the definition states, without adding or subtracting, and admitting no matter how painful the truth , and this is for everyone who is here in America and the panic of the coming law in Arizona , if passed, will be the toughest.
Unlike Martin Luther King, who was a citizen, who fought for citizens, for the rights of all Americans, this is a way different issue. Immigration is a different word and a different flavor.
Encourage citizenship and be Americans, then fight for the rights, of your people in the country that you left to become free, America the land of opportunity, a country made up of all nations under one name, American. So what’s up!
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i can't understand why enforcing a law that is in the federal books makes the arizona decision so wrong. maybe they are exploited to some degree by business, but the average illegal gets about $21,000 a year in benifits which comes out of the social security funds. that figures out to $331,000,000,000 a year.sorry for your supposed racial profiling stats, but i don't want the illegals spending my tax dollars. they also hurt our medical expenses by there trips to the hospital and have no money. the state or feds pick up that tab too. and education, hell those kids are eating up our education funds. yes they want a better life and come here, but at what expense to those who worked here all our lives and we take cuts in benifits. as for racial profiling, we also look at the ones who talk with a swedish accent, british and french and any other foreigner. we target all immigrants to make sure they live here legally. the biggest part of illegals are from people who over stay their visas. one final note, according to the constitution, the children born here to illegals DO NOT have automatic citizenship. they must be born to a woman or couple who are subject to the laws of the land. so separating the kids from the parents is not necessary. they all have to go back or face criminal charges. read the law and then decide if it is constitutional.
@ commisioner
I am sorry you feel the way you do. I like how you put up a number and yet don't sight your sources. Anybody can make up numbers. What benefits are you talking about site your sources. Which Federal law are you talking about site your source. No talking points please. People without insurance rather illegal or not hurt medical expenses. I mean make up your mind are the getting benefits which would include medical or aren't they? No poor management of schools is eating up school funds. Not enough people paying property taxes eating up schools funds. If a person, let's say American citizen is not paying taxes,not working, not paying property tax would you want to deport them too. I don't see swedes or french people complaining about profiling. It is Blacks and Mexicans so your logic is not correct. Anyone born in the United States is a citizen.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. Amendment 14 of the constitution. See it is easy to site sources so read it yourself. Don't allow ignorance to cloud your judgment.
Let me ask you this commish, What is reasonable suspicion? What is lawful contact? The law would be fine if it stipulated a crime in progress. Which could be as simple as jay walking but it does not. It leaves the door open, wide open for racial profiling. Do you like it when you are racially profiled? You advocate it. It is wrong period no matter the circumstance. Only white people are ok with racial profiling because they do not get racially profiled. Are you a white person?
Rasman, thanks for your participation on this issue. Here's a point. Healthcare, could you explain where these dollars are coming from to take care of non-citizens? You are worried about property tax. Well if we had more people paying them then may they may not go up. Blacks have been profiled and so has the Mexican for years. The point is that none of these make it right if you look at the definition here. I know that this is emotional for some people. I just look at the definition and weigh it against that. Your arguments are good but the fact is I still can't get around the definition and the word illegal. Which is against the law. Thanks again for your comment.
Commissioner, thanks for your comment. Wow, that was a mouthful. I really see the truth in what you say. It only stands true to the state budget, Arizona is going broke. Could it be that we would have more money for people who are really citizens? Health care money left over, for citizens. State taxes for Arizona which is really needed. And I have friends of other nationalities that have claimed they have been profiled, coming from other countries. Like I said, it common and has been. I don't know about what happens to the children if they are automatic citizens or not. I still can't understand why, not get citizenship, pay taxes, earn the right to be educated and health insurance and all the rest of the benefits.
Ok New Life I could not follow you. I am against any illegal immigration let me set it straight. Here's the deal Az has over 460,000 Illegals in the state. Let's do simple math.
Illegals do not pay income tax but they pay state sale tax @ 8 cents on every dollar. Here's the math. 460,000 times 1.081 equals $497,260.000 on every dollar spent. If an Illegal spends more than a dollar the state gets more in sales tax revenue. Here's an Arizona Budget Report 2004
http://udallcenter.arizona.edu/immigration/publica
Based on this study, the total state tax revenue attributable to immigrant workers was an estimated $2.4 billion (about $860 million for naturalized citizens plus about $1.5 billion for non-citizens). Balanced against incremental fiscal costs of $1.4 billion for education, healthcare, and law enforcement, immigrants in Arizona generated a net 2004 fiscal contribution of about $940 million toward services such as public safety, libraries, road maintenance, and other areas. Because the incremental costs incurred by immigrants in these areas are difficult to measure directly, they are not included in this report.
Consumer spending in 2004 by Arizona’s non-citizens generated tax revenues of approximately $320 million, consisting of personal taxes of nearly $36 million, sales
taxes of $150 million, and business taxes of about $130 million.
Please check out the report I know it is from 2004 but the point is that the Non-citizens contribute alot to the Arizona Budget.
Don't get upset with immigrants. Be upset that this state wants to hike up the sales tax in order to pay for tax cuts to corp. Why aren't you upset about that? This state has given the corp. big tax cuts that have to be paid for by all Arizona tax payers. This is a major loss of State Revenue. I also advocate charging tax on rent. Anyone that rents is not paying for the schools their kids go to or the fire dept, police dept, and any libraries in their neighborhood. Where is the outrage of these people not paying for schools. Get educated, get informed, and leave emotions out of the immigration debate.
I must correct my math. Sorry for the mistake.
460,000 times $.081 equals $37,276 per dollar spent by 460,000 people. for every million they spend the state makes $81,000.00. If non citizens are spending up to $1.5 billion then the state makes $121,500,000.00. So the argument that illegals are costing the state does not hold water when you do the numbers. We could get more if we create more work visa's make it easier to obtain them and get these people paying state income tax. Which will quadruple the state revenue source from these immigrants.
That's fine. This is a touchy subject. I appreciate your comments and I am sure that others appreciate your comments.
HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE YOU WANT TO COME TO THIS COUNTRY BY STARTING YOUR GOOD CITIXZENSHIP BY BREAKING THE LAW. IF YOU CAN'T RESPECT OUR COUNTRY'S LAWS YOU DON'T NEED TO COME HERE WHATEVER YOUR PROBLEM IS. OUR COUNTRY WAS NOT JUST HANDED TO US WE STRUGGLED TO MAKE IT WHAT A GREAT NATION IT IS. NOT WILLING TO WORK FOR YOUR COUNTRY, THAT MAKES ME THINK YOU WON'T BE PUTTING MUCH EFFORT INTO OURS.
Thanks for your comment Welcome1, I see that you just started with Hub Page. Looking forward to reading yours
This is some BS. I use to live in Casa Grande. You are right about everything you say. I am pissed about the state taking all the help away. That woman gov don't know ^@#$! I can't believe she got it. This state is going to hell.
Rasman 2 years ago
I don't like illegal immigration but this law in it's current form is unconstitutional. In the law it Requires officials and agencies to reasonably attempt to determine the immigration status of a person involved in a LAWFUL CONTACT where REASONABLE SUSPICION exists regarding the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.
The question is what is reasonable suspicion? and any lawful contact? Here's an example of lawful contact an accident happens you are standing there when it happened. A police officer shows up and starts asking if anyone has seen anything. You say I saw the whole thing. At this instant there is lawful contact. So, the officer looks at you and determines through reasonable suspicion that you look, or talk, or dress like an illegal immigrant (whatever that means). He begins to ask you to show your papers. This is the issue with this law. How many people carry an original Birth certificate? An Arizona ID or Drivers license is not proof of citizenship. If I am an American citizen when I make lawful contact I do not want to be asked for my papers. I do not live in NAZI GERMANY!
If this law mimics what the Nazi did then don't be surprised that the sponsor of the bill (the guy that wrote it) supports Neo-Nazi organizations and leaders here in Arizona. So how can a Neo-nazi supporter write a fair, legal and common sense immigration law. I assert that he can't.
Another myth perpetrated by the looney right. Is that illegals don't pay taxes. First of all, these people are being exploited. When an employers pays them below the Federal Law for minimum wage the employer is breaking the law. He does this by exploiting the fact that the are illegal. Yet, when an illegal gets paid and he spends his money at any store in Arizona they are paying taxes. They pay state sales tax and city sales tax. They are not paying state income tax. Which is why we should just issue work visa's let's get these people paying income tax.
So my city of Tucson, and Flagstaff have decided to sue over this blatantly racist law. So be it. Change the law to a common sense solution or deal with the repercussions of bad law making. No to illegal immigration and yes to common sense reform.